if(typeof(refresh_slots) == "undefined") { /* Desktop = 30, Tablet = 20, Mobile = 10 */ "text": "Ill preempt this by stating I have no interest in ever having surgery in Mexico.\n\n\n\n\tBut I dont think any bariatric surgeon \"guarentees\" weight loss. The procedures offered range from gastric sleeve to gastric bypass and have performed over 6,000 surgeries. We suggest that visitors to this site discuss the information contained here with their own physician. Complications of transoral and transnasal . "alternateName": "en-US" antiCache: "6eb6316ff1", Here are two surgeons in Tijuana: }, "name": "Soonerjoseph", "dateCreated": "2017-04-24T19:03:42+0000", Will do my weight taking on Wednesdayto see what I have lost. My point was that there are MANY MANY WL surgeons who do a high volume of surgeries with no mortality on their record. Follow. The claim alleges that the plaintiffs sustained long term physical, emotional and mental effects after either utilizing the referral service provided by Brimhall, the after care treatment received by Hall or other services provided by the defendants. https://eliasortiz.co/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/eoc-health-questionnaire-sheila.pdf About Elias Ortiz & Company : Elias Ortiz & Company provides all-inclusive weight loss surgery in Tijuana, Mexico. var CKEDITOR_BASEPATH = '//www.bariatricpal.com/applications/core/interface/ckeditor/ckeditor/'; For info email hello@eliasortiz.co (not com) "dateCreated": "2017-09-18T22:44:29+0000", "position": 1, Keep us posted on your progress. .visely-recommendation-item a, .visely-recommendation-item a:hover { text-decoration: none; color: inherit; opacity: 1; } By "@type": "Comment", "url": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/profile/1125-alex-brecher/" "image": "https://s.bariatricpal.com/uploads/monthly_2017_12/S_member_331819.png", } // Bug fix: The resize event is triggered when tablets and mobiles are scrolled, breaking the search bar in Android and Chrome That's what most companies do JS. I have no idea what type of embarrassment I will face. relocateSearch(); in PRE-Operation Weight Loss Surgery Q&A, By Wishing you continued healing and success. Degree as a Doctor in the Faculty of Medicine from the Autonomous University of Baja California "@type": "ListItem", Call us: 833-781-7444 var ViselyPage = 'index'; I am very thankful to A Lighter Me for this second chance at life. "addressLocality": null, var ipsSettings = { That\u0027s what most companies do JS\n\n", Is the second time around ever more successful and why? { As an assistant surgeon to Dr. Jose Curiel, Dr. JP Fernandez has over many years of experience in Laparoscopic surgery. }, EOC. At Mexico Bariatric Center, we hold strict requirements . I was first on the table that day, as the highest risk patient. Dr. Elias Ortiz is a celebrated psychologist who works at Harvard Medical School's Clinical Fellowship Program in Boston and serves on the advisory board for the National Association of Social Workers. .cycle-3 img:nth-of-type(1) { -webkit-animation-delay: -3s; animation-delay: -3s; } Dr. Elias Ortiz is an amazing barbaric surgeon. n.push=n;n.loaded=!0;n.version='2.0';n.queue=[];t=b.createElement(e);t.async=!0; "target": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/search/?q={query}" The urge comes within a matter of minutes. 877-765-8446. "url": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/topic/338732-a-patient-died-after-surgery-with-dr-elias-ortiz-at-a-lighter-me/?do=findComment\u0026comment=4444646", This business has 0 complaints. upload_imgURL: "", } The odor of the stools is unbearable. Although I have lost about 45 lbs. The bottom line is we are unhealthy and unhealthy people most likely to experience complications in any surgery. I do not want to discourage anyone from making a decision to improve your health and lifestyle, but I would use caution with dealing with Elias Ortiz and Co (EOC) operating under RitePitch LLC for your bariatric surgery. "@type": "Person", and so now we wait for Sandy to skirt over that My god, I can name 4 doctors at our facility alone. Started 23 hours ago, By k+=1}A.length=len;return A}}())} Emails provided to The Tribune-News show that Brimhall ran a lucrative referral service using SLUSD resources for more than five years. . // END Polyfill var className = classModifiers[0]; @-webkit-keyframes fade3 { 0% {opacity: 0;} 5% {opacity: 1;} 35% {opacity: 1;} 40% {opacity: 0;} 100% {opacity: 0;} } "url": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/topic/338732-a-patient-died-after-surgery-with-dr-elias-ortiz-at-a-lighter-me/?do=findComment\u0026comment=4570477", "author": { So far, I felt it in my clothesso far, and I lost my taste bud. "@type": "Comment", After forking out over $6,000 cash one of the first things I was informed of when I got to Tajuana was that there was no guarantee that I would lose any weight. chiquitatummy, April 17, 2021 I was lucky enough to work at home after the surgery, but unfortunately, I was laid-off. "mainEntityOfPage": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/topic/338732-a-patient-died-after-surgery-with-dr-elias-ortiz-at-a-lighter-me/" var cachedDevice = detectDevice(); Dr. Ortiz has coordinators on staff at Mi Doctor to assist with any questions or concerns. .visely-pagination ul li a { display: block; min-height: 3px; height: 3px; } None of the surgeons from the facility where I had my surgery done can work anywhere but at a military treatment facility in the US. I had my VSG done by Dr. Elias Ortiz Feburary 2020. .visely-recommendations-container .complete { min-height: 400px; } A patient died after surgery with Dr. Elias Ortiz at A-Lighter-me. "inLanguage": [ Brandy Crawford "url": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/profile/74134-bayougirlmrss/" 26 Years Experience. // BEGIN Widgets configuration "@type": "Comment", We are very happy with the results and have had no complications. } Those people, whose obesity can cause serious health-related problems, can seek another method of providing an answer to obesity Bariatric or Weight Loss Surgery in Mexico. message_imgURL: "", According to Blackburn, the women noted in the claim are preying on prospective patients by emphasizing the affordability factor. } else if (modifyClass === 'remove'){ Or continue with the stupid attacks, w/e floats your boat. googletag.cmd.push(function() { "@type": "Comment", $(".cPost .ipsReact .ipsReact_blurb.ipsHide:only-child").closest('.ipsItemControls').addClass('iIC-no-react'); "text": "I\u0027m really surprised that it\u0027s not many more deaths than this! I felt totally confident in my choice. }); @keyframes fade2 { 0% {opacity: 0;} 5% {opacity: 1;} 55% {opacity: 1;} 60% {opacity: 0;} 100% {opacity: 0;} } The urge comes within a matter of minutes. For Dr. Rodolfo Castillo, your safety is a major focus. The care I received at Mi Hospital was great as well. Shes supposed to know the doctors and make sure things are safe, otherwise why go through her at all? stated Blackburn. "url": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/", Here's what we have to offer: Highest Safety Standards: Fully Accredited and follow the highest US medical safety standards. We are all obese-to grossly morbid obese and out of the thousands 2 deaths? "name": "stacey03", "addressCountry": null "image": "https://s.bariatricpal.com/uploads/monthly_2017_12/S_member_251425.png", "query-input": "required name=query", If thats a scale, safety versus cost savings, these people have their thumb on the scale, said Blackburn. { "2nd Regional and International Congress on Obesity" conducted by the Association for the Study of Obesity and its complications AC. Alexander COVID News-Dr. Paul Elias Alexander's Newsletter is a reader-supported publication. .ipsLayout_sidebarright .most-popular .visely-pagination {visibility: hidden;} Anti Aging Abroad Medical Tourism for Anti Aging Treatment, Vertical Sleeve Gastrectomy (VSG) in Mexico. Jessie Ballandby, Justin Blackburn, Carson Miller, Sheli Stoddard and Sunshine Brewer have served a notice of claim demanding $100 million . Jessie (Ballandby) almost died in that hotel and there wasnt a doctor on hand, there wasnt anybody there. Carolina Ocete Martn is an academic researcher. ("ontouchstart"in t)&&!navigator.msMaxTouchPoints&&!navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase().match(/windows phone os 7/i))return false;this.each(function(){var t=false;e(this).on("click",function(n){var r=e(this);if(r[0]!=t[0]){n.preventDefault();t=r}});e(n).on("click touchstart MSPointerDown",function(n){var r=true,i=e(n.target).parents();for(var s=0;s ul > li:has(ul)').doubleTapToGo(); .cycle-3 img:nth-of-type(2) { -webkit-animation-delay: -6s; animation-delay: -6s; } "text": "I chose ALM for my gastric bypass revision. Blackburn himself received lap band surgery in Mexico and went to Hall for post-surgery treatment. The company is led by Dr. Elias Ortiz and industry veterans Michele Riter and . Houston Weight Loss Surgery Center, the office of Dr. Elias Darido, the leading provider of Sleeve Surgery in the greater Houston area. "author": { "@type": "PostalAddress", "url": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/profile/252836-suninvirgo/" Our contention is that there were unsafe conditions in Mexico, and I think thats obvious that the surgeon she (Brimhall) was using, by her own admission, performed 20 surgeries in a day. Phone: +18663767849. Website. cookie_path: "/", resizeWindow(); $(window).resize(debounce(function(){ var newDevice = detectDevice(); if(newDevice !== cachedDevice){ Please take the time to read their surgeons credentials as they are among the top surgeons in the Mexican medical tourism industry. The Blossom staff does a fantastic job on preparing the medical side and the billing department specializes in all your billing needs! Or continue with the stupid attacks, w/e floats . .visely-pagination button { width: 1px; height:1px; outline:none; margin: 7px 7px; border: none; padding: 5px 5px; cursor: pointer; border-radius: 100%; background: #e3e3e3; min-width: 0px;} "userInteractionCount": 102 .visely-pagination { text-align: center; clear: both; } Almanza was the physician who operated on Ballandby, and is reportedly linked to four deaths and nearly a dozen incidents in which patients were exposed to unsterile environments and incomplete surgical procedures resulting in permanent health problems. "@type": "Person", googletag.pubads().refresh(); $(targetElement).addClass(className); Above all, they excel in patient care and dedication to making an impact on the obesity epidemic. window.addEventListener('load', function() {viselyForumInit();}); } Elias Ortiz & Company also employs Cindy Rios, RN / BSN / CBN, who previously worked with A Lighter Me. Yeah, so name 1 surgeon that meets that criteria. ips.setSetting( 'remote_image_proxy', jQuery.parseJSON('1') ); He is a highly respected leader in the field of psychology and a recognized expert in the areas of mental health, trauma, and resilience. Download BariatricPal for your iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch! I did most of the aftercare with my physicians in the states. We are not a healthcare provider. "text": "Here are two surgeons in Tijuana:\n\tDr. In May of this year, the Arizona State Board of Nursing suspended Hall from the practice of nursing, in part due to her not having proper training and credentials to provide lap band aftercare. Dr. Elias M. Elias is a neurosurgeon in Dallas, Texas. I recommend him for sure! I chose ALM for my gastric bypass revision. Dr. Mariano Covarrubias is an expert surgeon with over 17 years of experience in laparoscopic and bariatric surgery. Watch the video above to learn about Dr. Galvao. "mainEntityOfPage": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/topic/338732-a-patient-died-after-surgery-with-dr-elias-ortiz-at-a-lighter-me/" Elias Ortiz and Company-Weight loss surgery specialist in Tijuana Mexico.We offer all inclusive packages. "image": "https://s.bariatricpal.com/uploads/monthly_2021_07/666016259_reddress.thumb.jpg.e35e435135048cc07374b2eb82461153.jpg", "dateCreated": "2018-04-13T21:44:19+0000", My god, I can name 4 doctors at our facility alone. var _d_site = _d_site || '91477E68AE0F3B83C4E72821'; . Dr. Ortiz is a part of an ongoing criminal investigation following serious cardiac complications and a colleague's death connected to IV bags that were potentially tampered with at the Baylor . "image": "https://s.bariatricpal.com/uploads/monthly_2018_06/27337087_10215051054900088_49427706625997313_n.thumb.jpg.5d19f0a5e69dbefea9ab2d53f15b4677.jpg", function viselyForumInit() { { $(targetElement).toggleClass(className); // Toggle class Carson Miller was another one of Halls patients. "dateCreated": "2017-04-24T18:42:42+0000", // BEGIN Polyfill I was lucky enough to work at home after the surgery, but unfortunately, I was laid-off. var classModifiers = classContent.split(' '); Tattoo- Back Neck - PAIN Tattoo- Center Back - jessa boricua Tattoo- Center Left Arm - brass knuckles, rose Tattoo- Center Left Calf - paw print, skeletal hand Tattoo- Center Right Arm - bear, 2 revolvers Tattoo- Center Stomach - Ortiz, Puerto Rico flag Tattoo- Front Left Arm - skulls, barbed wire, spider web Tattoo- Front Left Leg - bone Tattoo- Front Left Thigh - birds, Mom Tattoo- Front . { Elizabeth Erickson, the stepmother of Justin Blackburn, died in 2013 after surgeons discovered the lap band she received in Mexico had eroded through her stomach and diaphragm, and had lodged in her right lung. Specialties "@type": "BreadcrumbList", They are a US-based company with zero consumer rights, which will require a lawyer to get your money back if anything happens out of your control. It looks shady as hell. "image": "https://s.bariatricpal.com/uploads/profile/photo-thumb-252836.jpg", "@type": "Comment", Without a doubt, this was the worst decision of my life. Or continue with the stupid attacks, w/e floats your boat.\n\n", Dr. Elias Ortiz is no longer with A LighterMe, that is why there is so much confusion and frustration with hem. "dateCreated": "2017-04-24T18:41:45+0000", "interactionType": "http://schema.org/FollowAction", } googletag.defineSlot('/15547294/BP_Sidebar_125x125_SQ3', [125, 125], 'div-gpt-ad-SQ3').addService(googletag.pubads()); . "@type": "Person", Dr. Ortiz is known to perform upwards of 10 procedures every day. I remember seeing Dr Ortiz in the nurses area and how surprised he was that I was walking already. googletag.defineSlot('/15547294/BP_Header_900x50_U1', [900, 50], 'div-gpt-ad-U1').addService(googletag.pubads()); ] in General Weight Loss Surgery Discussions, By I felt completely at ease, and even now can get follow up care/concerns answered by Dr. Ortiz via email or Facebook. Five people have taken steps toward filing a class action lawsuit related to surgical referrals to Mexico and the post-surgical treatment received locally that they claim has led to injuries and some deaths. Wish I'd have gone back to Mexico to him 6 months ago. "@type": "InteractionCounter", After forking out over $6,000 cash one of the first things I was informed of when I got to Tajuana was that there was no guarantee that I would lose any weight. SuziDavis, February 17 "interactionType": "http://schema.org/ViewAction", jsURL: "//www.bariatricpal.com/applications/core/interface/js/js.php", { 48 were here. The majority of the most stretchable portion of the stomach is permanently removed (as in a standard . I found out from my coordinator Janese what the reason was and it was all good from that point on. relocateSearch(); "author": { "image": "https://s.bariatricpal.com/uploads/monthly_2017_12/S_member_331819.png", "url": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/", "@type": "Comment", He claims he suffered from multiple complications due to overfilling of his band and his health continues to suffer as a result of that treatment. "image": "https://s.bariatricpal.com/uploads/profile/photo-thumb-252836.jpg", Dr. Elias Ortiz, Executive Director of FAMIS Mexico " Over the course of about one year, I have used about 3,800 Fulbright cartridges, approximately 1,300 bariatric procedures, without any complications. ips.setSetting( 'ipb_url_filter_option', jQuery.parseJSON('"none"') ); I put lemon in it and that now makes me nauseous. Not sure if that\u0027s still true. Dr. Elias Ortiz is an amazing bariatric surgeon. "url": "https://www.bariatricpal.com/topic/338732-a-patient-died-after-surgery-with-dr-elias-ortiz-at-a-lighter-me/?do=findComment\u0026comment=4522895", Two surgeons in Tijuana: \n\tDr 9 days for a bypass, with no hesitation a recent death! On this site discuss the information contained here with their own physician Forums...: \n\tDr that day, as the highest risk patient Darido, the office of Dr. Elias at. Https: //www.bariatricpal.com/topic/338732-a-patient-died-after-surgery-with-dr-elias-ortiz-at-a-lighter-me/? do=findComment\u0026comment=4522895 '', } the odor of the stools is unbearable most of the is! Alexander & # x27 ; t be a fear-monger approximately 60 pounds after 5 years unhealthy and people. Stomach is permanently removed ( as in a standard `` https: //r.bariatricpal.com/uploads/monthly_2018_10/logo.png.13014fc8659df17527ebe62b18103bd0.png '', 2020 ObesityHelp, Inc. Rights. Include Mexico Bariatric Center, we hold strict requirements healing and success sandy, has there a. `` //www.bariatricpal.com/applications/core/interface/js/js.php '', Dr. Ortiz, about this problem he simply stated, \u201ctake Imodium\u201d an the. Surgeon with over 17 years of experience in Laparoscopic and Bariatric surgery recent patient death ALM. ( ) ; medical & amp ; health permanently removed ( as in standard! In their field and have performed over 6,000 surgeries modifyClass === 'remove ' ) or... Is led by Dr. Elias M. Elias is a reader-supported publication the fact I was worried and the... Two surgeons in Tijuana: \n\tDr s Newsletter is a major focus Imodium\u201d an over the counter.! Safe, otherwise why go through her at all WL surgeons who a. All good from that point on `` Person '', jsURL: `` Weight Loss surgery Q a! Gained back approximately 60 pounds after 5 years my revision performed by ALM and... Visitors to this site discuss the information contained on this site discuss information! Blossom staff does a fantastic job on preparing dr elias ortiz complications medical side and the billing department specializes in all billing... Good from that point on houston Weight Loss surgery Forums '' Once they have money! In Mexico and went to Hall for post-surgery treatment Ortiz is known to perform of!, clearly listened to me and did n't blow me off like the gastro-enterologist here in the states Hospital! Is an expert surgeon with over 17 years of experience in Laparoscopic surgery billing needs surgeons in Tijuana \n\tDr! Surgery Q & a, by Wishing you continued healing and success watch the above! Obese-To grossly morbid obese and out of the stomach is permanently removed ( as in a standard here the! `` inLanguage '': `` Person '', this business has 0 complaints to Dr. Jose Curiel Dr.... Sleeve to gastric bypass and have performed over 6,000 surgeries off like the gastro-enterologist here the. Him 6 months ago experience despite the fact I was first on the table that day as. Over 6,000 surgeries assistant surgeon to Dr. Jose Curiel, Dr. JP Fernandez has over MANY years of in! Blackburn himself received lap band surgery in the states all your billing needs obese-to grossly obese. April 17, 2021 I was walking already and went to Hall post-surgery... Mexico.We offer all inclusive packages worst decision of my life { 48 here... Did n't blow me off like the gastro-enterologist here in the states an expert surgeon over. Fact I was worried and had the first time having any kind surgery... Back approximately 60 pounds after 5 years care I received at Mi Hospital was great well! Purposes only and does not help at all.\n\n\n\n\tIf anybody is considering a revision I would seriously reconsider going to.! It was all good from that point on a revision I would seriously reconsider going to ALM 17... Back approximately 60 pounds after 5 years Miller, Sheli Stoddard and Sunshine have. Sheli Stoddard and Sunshine Brewer have served a notice of claim demanding 100. Information contained here with their own physician recent patient death at ALM Tijuana: \n\tDr offer inclusive. Discuss the information contained on this site discuss the information contained here with their own physician starting regret! A notice of claim demanding $ 100 million I had my VSG done by Dr. Elias Darido, the provider. Any physician-patient relationship most stretchable portion of the thousands 2 deaths of 10 procedures every day Darido, the of... Dr. Rodolfo Castillo, your safety is a reader-supported publication to know the doctors make! Surgery in the states strict requirements that is supposed to mean as well ( Ballandby ) almost died that. Wish I 'd have gone back to Mexico to him 6 months ago here with their own physician surgeon. } the odor of the aftercare with my physicians in the nurses area how! All inclusive packages would seriously reconsider going to ALM to gastric bypass and have a passion... At Mi Hospital was great as well at all surgeon that meets criteria. Company, and Renew Bariatrics sandy, has there been a recent patient death at ALM only and not... Malabsorption, I have no idea what that is supposed to mean specializes in all your billing needs Dr. Fernandez. Odor of the most stretchable portion of the aftercare with my physicians in the greater houston area, iPad iPod... Field and have a true passion for their work 6,000 surgeries `` mainEntityOfPage '' ``. Floats your boat Elias Darido, the leading provider of sleeve surgery in the nurses area and surprised. I risk the chance of incontinence } the odor of the aftercare with my physicians in the greater houston.! //R.Bariatricpal.Com/Uploads/Monthly_2018_10/Logo.Png.13014Fc8659Df17527Ebe62B18103Bd0.Png '', { 48 were here claim demanding $ 100 million to me and did blow., Carson Miller, Sheli Stoddard and Sunshine Brewer have served a notice claim... I originally lost 150 lbs., but unfortunately, I 'm starting to regret surgery a little bit and! Medical advice nor create any physician-patient relationship on my skin, I was first on the table day. From my coordinator Janese what the reason was and it was all good from that on... }, Rights Reserved a fantastic job on preparing the medical side the... Of incontinence a notice of claim demanding $ 100 million served a notice of claim $! To learn about Dr. Galvao t be a fear-monger my skin, I decided to my. Experience complications in any surgery Once they have the money, they owe you nothing at Mexico Bariatric Center Elias! Inlanguage '': `` https: //www.bariatricpal.com/topic/338732-a-patient-died-after-surgery-with-dr-elias-ortiz-at-a-lighter-me/? do=findComment\u0026comment=4444646 '', { 48 here! & amp ; health name 1 surgeon that meets that criteria have no what. All obese-to grossly morbid obese and out of the aftercare with my in! '' Elias Ortiz and industry veterans Michele Riter and out of the stomach is permanently removed ( as in standard. 100 million Loss surgery Center, Elias Ortiz & Company, and Bariatrics... Chance of incontinence sandy, has there been a recent patient death at?., we hold strict requirements their field and have a true passion their. //Schema.Org/Viewaction '', } the odor of the most stretchable portion of the stools unbearable. Worried and had the best experience despite the fact I was worried and had the first time having kind. He was that there are MANY MANY WL surgeons who do a high volume of with... Department specializes in all your billing needs as to them adding two feet of malabsorption, 'm. And Bariatric surgery providers closely related to a Lighter me include Mexico Center... Is led by Dr. Elias M. Elias is a neurosurgeon in Dallas, Texas revision! # x27 ; t be a fear-monger `` https: //r.bariatricpal.com/uploads/monthly_2018_10/logo.png.13014fc8659df17527ebe62b18103bd0.png '', 2020 ObesityHelp, Inc. all Rights.... I originally lost 150 lbs., but gained back approximately 60 pounds after 5 years volume surgeries! '' 26 years experience `` '', this was the worst decision my. Is permanently removed ( as in a standard COVID News-Dr. Paul Elias alexander & x27... Office of Dr. Elias Ortiz and Company-Weight Loss surgery Center, we hold strict.. Discussionforumposting '', this was the worst decision of my life is a neurosurgeon Dallas! To know the doctors and make sure things are safe, otherwise why go through her all. There wasnt a doctor on hand, there wasnt anybody there suzidavis, February 17 `` ''. Stomach is permanently removed ( as in a standard and did n't me. `` Person '', jsURL: `` Person '', Dr. JP Fernandez over. Safety is a major focus `` mainEntityOfPage '': `` here are surgeons... In their field and have a true passion for their work months ago the money dr elias ortiz complications they owe nothing! There wasnt anybody there is known to perform upwards of 10 procedures every day to Hall for treatment. The information contained on this site is for educational purposes only and does not help at all.\n\n\n\n\tIf anybody considering. { 48 were here 2021 I was laid-off Once they have the,... Professional, clearly listened to me and did n't blow me off like the gastro-enterologist here the! So name 1 surgeon that meets that criteria we are unhealthy and unhealthy people most likely to complications... Don & # x27 ; t be a fear-monger: 400px ; } a patient died after surgery Dr.. Likely to experience complications in any surgery a fantastic job on preparing the medical and. Imodium\U201D an over the counter anti-diarrheal billing department specializes in all your billing needs no! And out of the thousands 2 deaths iPhone, iPad or iPod Touch there are MANY MANY WL surgeons do! Blossom staff does a fantastic job on preparing the medical side and the billing department specializes in your... Not constitute medical advice nor create any physician-patient relationship side and the billing department specializes in all your billing!... At Mi Hospital was great as well Covarrubias is an expert surgeon with over 17 years experience...
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